| Posted: Tuesday Feb 28th, 2012 10:48 am |
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1st Post |
paulgw
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I am reposting this in Questions on using comfort as this may be more relevant
Hi all,
I have had a Comfort II alarm sat in it's box for the last couple of years awaiting renovation of the house and subsequent recomissioning.
We are nearly ready and before I go attatching the thing to the alarm wiring and prgramming I want to check it will do what I want.
The scenario I have is main house, garage, garden shed and Summer house.
We have 4 user groups :- Me, My wife, cleaner, tradesmen / parents
Ideally I would like the following behaviour
Day Mode - If anyone apart from cleaner puts system into day mode then main house and garage are disarmed with shed and summer house remaining alarmed.
If cleaner enters her code I want the alarm only to disarm the main house and Ideally want to be able to limit this to the specific timeframe she should be there, i.e. say a wednesday between 10 and 4 only. As far as cleaner is concerned she can only choose between "Day" and "Away" modes. Night Mode not used for this user nor is Holiday.
Away Mode for all Users alarms everything.
Night Mode - Everything apart from main house upstairs sensors armed
Assuming all of the above is possible how do I create a disarm scenario for the summer house and garden shed or would this effectively need two seperate alarms? I have a sperate keypad in the Summer House and will also have IOS app as well.
If I ran two comfort control panels one for summer house / shed and the other for main house and garage is there a way to get them to talk to each other? Such that a trigger event in the Summer House or shed would appear as a zone trigger on the comfort system in the main house?
The reason I ask this is that I also have an old Comfort I gathering dust in the loft somewhere and assuming it worked and I could find the UCM etc for it that might be an option
I hope my question makes sense, if not please feel free to ask questions / pick holes in my plan....
Paul
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| Posted: Tuesday Feb 28th, 2012 11:23 am |
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2nd Post |
ident
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I suggest that you do not give the cleaner a code to arm using the keypad
Instead use a key switch or a standalone access control keypad with its own code which provides a contact into comfort. This can be programmed not to arm to any mode but to bypass a set of zones depending on the time so the maid can get in during those times.
Other family members can use the keypad to arm and disarm as usual
Away, day, Night away can be used as required.
If you want a separate and independent arm/disarm operation in the summer house and shed it is better to use a separate comfort system. Comfort I will work but the new features like iPhone app will not work
To link two systems together use outputs from one system to inputs of the other
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| Posted: Thursday Mar 1st, 2012 05:22 pm |
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3rd Post |
paulgw
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Hi ident,
thanks for your response, can you elaborate as to why I shouldn't give the cleaner a code? I thought the whole idea with Comfort was that you could have multiple users with their own ocdes or am i missing something.
I will have a KP06 in the study with a scene control switch for the lights in the same frame and won't get approval to add anything else
Since my original post I decided to go with two seperate systems, one purely for the summer house and the other for the shed, garage and main house.
Is there a burgular alarm example template available somewhere to show a simple starting point? I have had a go at programming the system and so far it does everything it should but want to make sure I haven't got it doing anything daft either.
Regards
Paul
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| Posted: Thursday Mar 1st, 2012 09:07 pm |
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schford
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I too would like to be able to give our housekeeper a code and it only work on certain days / times - perhaps something to consider for a future update?
I would have thought that a significant proportion of potential customers for a high end system like Comfort might have a similar requirement?
I have considered combination or key presses on light switches but honestly - our cleaner probably couldn't do it :-)
Cheers
StuartLast edited on Thursday Mar 1st, 2012 09:09 pm by schford
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| Posted: Friday Mar 2nd, 2012 01:26 am |
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ident
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can you elaborate as to why I shouldn't give the cleaner a code? I thought the whole idea with Comfort was that you could have multiple users with their own codes or am i missing something.
I sugested using a key switch or separate access control keypad for the cleaner because of the complex requirement for this user, ie
"only to disarm the main house and Ideally want to be able to limit this to the specific timeframe she should be there, i.e. say a wednesday between 10 and 4 only."
You can have 16 users with diferent authorisation levels ie remote arm, remote disarm, local arm, local disarm etc
However any user who disarms will disarm the entire system except for 24 hour zonens and not just some areas
Another possibility is to have all zones exept the main house as 24 hour zones so when the system is disarmed the other 24 hour zones remain armed
You can program the System Disarmed Alarm Response so that if users other than the cleaner disarm then the 24 hour zones are bypassed. This should be a workable solution
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| Posted: Friday Mar 2nd, 2012 01:28 am |
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ident
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I too would like to be able to give our housekeeper a code and it only work on certain days / times - perhaps something to consider for a future update?
User code which is enabled or disabled based on time programs is a feature under development.
This is different from a user being able to disarm only certain areas leaving other areas armed which is a different requirement
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| Posted: Friday Mar 2nd, 2012 07:59 am |
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Vangelis
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Thought also needs to be given how this timed user code will work in practice :
1) Cleaner arrives 5 mins early - enters property causing entry delay to execute - unable to enter code disarm code due to it being outside of allotted time - alarm goes off
2) Cleaner overruns allotted time and is unable to arm system
Some logic and audible announcements could be built around this but its not as straight forward as it first looks.
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| Posted: Friday Mar 2nd, 2012 08:24 am |
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ident
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Correct, even if the function is available, the person responsible needs to think through the implications
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| Posted: Friday Mar 2nd, 2012 01:30 pm |
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schford
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Thanks Ident!
In terms of functionality - exiting I would suggest just using std arm button and not needing to logon.
Logging on I would probably have a broad range eg she can disarm system in day time but not night.
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| Posted: Friday May 18th, 2012 06:00 pm |
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10th Post |
paulgw
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Hi all,
Finally have the time to revisit this, so thank you to everyone for their previous replies - I am flattered you think my house would take 6 hours to clean!! The cleaners hours are 12 till 2 hence the 10 till 4 in the original post to allow for some degree of flexibility.
I have a Honeywell (ADE) smart set key fob based alram control which has a relay output and I plan to implement the idea of suppressing zones as proposed by ident above. The bit that is unclear is that in order to get to said box the cleaner will trigger two sensors - one on the front door itself and the other being the hall PIR.
How do I stop these resulting in the alarm going off?
Regards
Paul
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| Posted: Saturday May 19th, 2012 02:30 am |
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tech07
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The front door should be an Entry Zone Type and the PIR should have "Entry Path" checked in the zone settings
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| Posted: Monday May 21st, 2012 02:44 pm |
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paulgw
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tech07 wrote: The front door should be an Entry Zone Type and the PIR should have "Entry Path" checked in the zone settings
Hi Tech 07,
The front door and Hall PIR are set up as you suggest in your post but I am not at all sure that helps move things forward. As all this does is allow the entrant sufficient time to get to the alarm panel to type in their access code.
If I understood ident's proposal correctly the cleaner wouldn't have an acess code to the alarm at all and would have a key or tag (in my case the Honeywell fob) that would surpress zones once they enter the house.
What I am struggling with is how this works in practice as she will have already set off zones 1 and 2 at this point and therefore started the delay counter so without an alarm code surely cannot stop the natural progression towards the alarm going off?
Paul
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| Posted: Tuesday May 22nd, 2012 02:14 am |
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ident
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Looking back on the earlier posts, the reason why I suggested to use a keyfob to bypass zones instead of disarm was because you originally had a separate area in the summer house which would be disarmed if the cleaner used a code. You have since said that the summer house would be a separate system so that is not a problem anymore
The cleaner should be able to use her code to disarm the system. The new Firmware 6.021 allows the user code to be enabled or disabled by Response, eg using Time Programs. The new Daily Time Adjustment feature allows you to adjust the time error so that the time remains accurate
If you use a keyfob , you can program the Zone Response to disarm the system, not to bypass zones
I hope I have covered the issues
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| Posted: Thursday May 24th, 2012 09:10 pm |
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14th Post |
paulgw
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Hi ident,
Many thanks for the update on the firmware, I was assuming this wouldn't happen for a while so was looking for work arounds.
Any idea when 6.021 will be released?
Thanks
Paul
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| Posted: Friday May 25th, 2012 04:19 am |
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| Posted: Friday Nov 29th, 2013 11:31 pm |
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16th Post |
paulgw
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Hi all,
Revisiting this topic as alarm in the summer house has stopped working and rather than continuing to maintain a second alarm system and instead looking at the idea of putting an SEM02 in the summer house.
The new system setup would consist of the following:-
Keypad at front door - external door configured as entry / exit zone
Keypad in garage - external door configured as entry / exit zone
Keypad in summer house - external door configured as entry exit zone.
User code 1 - entering user code 1 will put alarm in Day mode.
User code 2 - entering user code 2 will put alarm to security off
Day mode - all house zones omitted, but summer house and shed remain active.
Night mode - all zones working except landing zone omitted.
Security off - All zones disabled
Away -all zones active
So my questions are:-
1. Can I have 3 zones all set as entry exit zones with delays for entering the user code.
2. Will my plan regarding the security modes work?
Thanks
Paul
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| Posted: Saturday Nov 30th, 2013 02:10 am |
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17th Post |
ident
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Can I have 3 zones all set as entry exit zones with delays for entering the user code.
Yes you can have as many Entry Door zones as you wish
Each one can have its own entry time using the Entry Time action assigned to the zone response
2. Will my plan regarding the security modes work?
Day mode, Night mode and away mode can work as you say
But entering the user code does not activate any response so you canot sign in with user 1 to put the system in to day mode. Is that necessary?
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| Posted: Saturday Nov 30th, 2013 09:07 am |
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18th Post |
paulgw
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Hi ident,
If it was possible to have the system setup to have a user code able to put the alarm into a certain state then it would get around the whole partitioning situation if I understand how this works correctly.
The alarm states of security off, night mode, day mode and away mode could be implemented to effectively bypass zones.
Having a user code, for instance 1111 perform an action and put the system into day mode would enable access to the main house but leave outbuildings etc still alarmed.
Where my understanding is limited is what would happen if with the house was in day mode but I open the summer house door- do I still get the entry exit delay which gives me the chance to enter the second user code - say 2222 which would then put the system to security off - or would I get an instant activation of the alarm.
I realise there is a compromise in having to have two user codes in order to achieve the solution but from my perspective I think this would be a great compromise to overcome the partitioning aspect.
If people are wondering why the interest in this solution - it is purely driven by cost and flexibility - having two or more comfort panels in a property to control alarms isn't cheap but could be doable - the crippling factor is then the amount of UCM's needed to ensure interaction between the different alarms and cbus / knx / Ethernet / 3rd party etc.
In my setup (which I think is fairly basic in terms of requirements) I would end up needing to purchase another £1k worth of UCM's just to make everything talk to external systems and would then have integration headaches with systems such as wiser which can only support one comfort instance on a network and require a network bridge at another £500 or so pounds to effectively mask the presence of one of the comfort systems and therefore reducing my level of integration.
Currently this is written as an end user but as of March 1st 2014 I will be an installer / specifier of comfort and think this is a feature that will help sell comfort in the types of properties I will be targeting.
Apologies for the long winded post but hope you get the idea, any questions please let me know.
Regards
Paul
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| Posted: Saturday Nov 30th, 2013 12:58 pm |
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ident
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what would happen if with the house was in day mode but I open the summer house door- do I still get the entry exit delay which gives me the chance to enter the second user code - say 2222 which would then put the system to security off - or would I get an instant activation of the alarm.
As long as the system is armed, opening an entry door will start the entry delay
It may be possible for user codes to do a Response.
Misc Event > User Responses have response for each user but this is used only for the Fingerprint reader (which is not sold anymore)
Perhaps this can work for normal user sign ins, but will have to consult the R&D engineers
Currently this is written as an end user but as of March 1st 2014 I will be an installer / specifier of comfort and think this is a feature that will help sell comfort in the types of properties I will be targeting.
I am glad to hear that. If you have been an end user who installed and programmed your own system, you should be very well equipped as far as programming and configuration of Comfort
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| Posted: Wednesday Dec 4th, 2013 01:38 pm |
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paulgw
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Hi ident,
Thanks for your reply - it would be really good to know if the user codes can be used in this way - did you get any feedback from R&D?
Thanks for your words of encouragement - I am still only confident that I can program the basics currently but I am slowly getting my head round the integration potential with CBUS and Heatmiser etc.
Are there are any training courses planned for next year in the UK?
Regards
Paul
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