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poweruser
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Posted: Monday Jan 7th, 2008 06:41 pm |
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Chiu,
Have you considered introducing a LEM / SEM that supports bus (rather than star) wired sensors, supported by either a range of compatible sensors, and / or a module to fit inside off-the-shelf sensors.
In my last install there were 48 inputs (pretty much one per sensor type per room), and despite running multiple sensors on a single multicore cable where possible, it was still a lot of wire, and made cable management into, and in, the panels time consuming if nothing else, not to mention the additional complexity of wiring the sensors themselves to pass through unused wires to the next sensor. In addition, it meeant two full-size, and one smaller panel, and all this for a domestic installation.
With a bus wired system, depending on the design, it ought to be possible to run numerous sensors on a single two-wire loop (assumes the signalling is modulated on the power-line), or at most four wires if power and signalling are kept separate.
A disadvantage I can see is that a cable or sensor fault could disrupt some or all of the other sensors on the same bus, so it would still be appropriate to run multiple busses, either in a cable with more cores, and / or in conjunction with star wiring, but to a much lesser extent than with current designs.
In theory, comfort could support all 64 inputs (or more), on a single LEM added the the base panel.
The I/O module added to a sensor need be no bigger than a postage stamp judging by DCC modules. (What brought this back to mind was the purchase of a DCC model railway set for my kids, which allows independant digital powerline control of multiple trains on the same track - the train modules are measured in millimeters, and cost a few dollars to manufacture:
Thoughts any one?
Regards,
Matt.
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admin
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 12:08 pm |
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Do you have a specific bus wired sensor or system in mind?
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poweruser
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 10:22 pm |
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Hi Chiu,
None in particular, but there are plenty out there. Most though seem to be proprietary, and are part of systems that compete with Comfort ,which I obviously wouldn't want to encourage ;-)
That's partly why I was thinking more of a module that could be added to an existing sensor, so that Cytech doesn't have to go down the route of manufacturing PIRs, contact sensors etc - installers can continue to use thier preferred brand of sensor, retrofitted with the bus communication module.
Not sure if there's a "standard" for an alarm bus, but there are plenty of other bus communication standards that could be appropriated for alarm use.
Matt.
Last edited on Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 10:23 pm by poweruser
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admin
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 12:47 pm |
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Matt
Thats an interesting idea, something to be looked at in future, but quite a major design in itself, considering the need for reliability, power consumption etc.
C-Bus and EIB run their power and signal on 1 wire but their power supplies seem to be quite hefty and not amenable to battery backup.
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palmlodge
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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| My CBUS network is fully UPS'd. Comfort takes action with certain lights in the event of a power loss when it detects a power outage.
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poweruser
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Posted: Monday Jan 28th, 2008 08:09 pm |
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Chiu,
It seems ABB have a range of EIB / KNX compatible alarm sensors (PIR, vibration, contact, smoke etc):
http://www.knx-gebaeudesysteme.de/sto_g/English/_HTML/product_tree_030_005_001_014.htm
Given that Comfort already supports EIB therough a UCM, would it take much to allow EIB channels to be mapped to Comfort virtual imputs as alarm inputs?
Regards,
Matt.
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admin
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 29th, 2008 01:15 am |
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EIB sensors are not suitable for alarm purposes. They are not battery backed up and would fail when there is a loss of AC power.
If you really want to use an EIB sensor there is an action Do Alarm which you can use in the Zone Response which would trigger any alarm
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garym999
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Posted: Saturday Feb 23rd, 2008 11:51 am |
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I have suggested this before. See here & here. What we need is for a system that allows for alot of expansion but without the complexity of lots of individual cable runs.
I had an old alarm system that used chips known as "ID biscuits" that could be wired to standard sensors. Very simple but very powerful as each and every sensor could be uniquly identified.
So I would love to see something like this too.
Last edited on Monday Mar 10th, 2008 03:23 pm by garym999
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garym999
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Posted: Monday Mar 10th, 2008 03:16 pm |
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Take a look here... Although the site is orientated to weather monitoring it shows some of what is possible and available on a one-wire interface. There is also a HA section.
Also this a good reference for the ID Biscuits used in the alarm industry.
Last edited on Monday Mar 10th, 2008 03:25 pm by garym999
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ndh
Assisted Living
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Posted: Tuesday Mar 18th, 2008 01:17 pm |
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Dupline from Carlo Cavazzi might be another candidate ?
and would go further than just PIRs?
Has been requested elsewhere on the forum
Nigel
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