Comfort  Automation/ Security System Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

RIO IR output + IRM01 low power?
 Moderated by: slychiu
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tuesday Jan 15th, 2013 10:30 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Hi,

when configuring comfort to send IR codes learned from my remotes i found that that all my appliances only work when i extend the IR cable and point direcly to the receiver, about 1 meter distance. Even for one of the A/C (Fujitsu) i installed the receiver about 1 meter LOS and it does not always work.

My tested appliances are:
2 different Fujitsu A/Cs
LG TV
Panasonic TV


I troubleshooted with a IR receiver that turns on a led each time i detects signals and i have verified that it is possible to even receive wall reflected signals, my guess is that the original appliances find the signal too low and discard it.

I'm kind of confused, is this the expected behavior? do i have to install a IR transmitter right in front of each of my appliances? Am i missing something?

I can try the outputs on the main comfort to see if there is any difference. I'd be grateful if someone could share with me some tips on this, since i was expecting a performance similar to the original remotes that work almost in ever angle/position.

My set up:

- comfort Ultra II 7.005
- UCM USB 7.002
- UCM KNX 6.024
- RIO 2.007
- 13 16A relays - finder 40.61
all in the same enclosure powered with the original 12Vac transformer that came with the bundle.

- SCS 6button about 5 meters away



Best regards,
Cab123



 Posted: Wednesday Jan 16th, 2013 04:37 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
ident
Administrator


Joined: Wednesday Aug 9th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3493
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Which IR Transmitter do you have?

IRM01

IRM01 is a long range transmitter, which is similar range to a handheld remote control ie 5 to 8 meters


IRW01

IRW01 is short range transmitter about 1 meter range

IRW03

IRW03 is a short range transmitter meant to stick on to the receiver

You need the IRm01 for long range operation

There is no difference between RIO and Comfort/SEM/LEM outputs

Last edited on Wednesday Jan 16th, 2013 04:38 am by ident



 Posted: Wednesday Jan 16th, 2013 08:51 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
wiredhome
Comfort Distributors


Joined: Thursday Apr 12th, 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 81
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I had this problem as well using the IRM-01 with my aircon
i ended up cabling to each unit and fitting the irm-01 in a little box on the ceiling see photo
it looks horrible but it wouldnt work anywhere else

Attachment: ir control.jpg (Downloaded 60 times)



 Posted: Wednesday Jan 16th, 2013 09:28 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Hi, i have 8 IRM01's longe range.



 Posted: Wednesday Jan 16th, 2013 09:43 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 5507
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

The IRM01 should be able to work at a distance, not just 1 meter
Have you tested all 8 IRM01 with the same problem?

Are the IRM01 connected direct to the RIO Output with no addtional resistance?
How long is the cable from the IR transmitter to the RIO?

Can you try connecting to a Comfort Output just to make sure the RIO is not faulty



 Posted: Thursday Jan 17th, 2013 01:34 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Hi, thanks for the answers.

I'm afraid my issue looks similar to what wiredhome described. Anyway i'll test all IRM01's at both RIO and comfort and report back.

I can describe how i bumped into this, maybe it can help:

- Direct connection from RIO to IRM1 using 1 pair of 5 meter CAT5e cable (for testing).
- Originally the A/C OFF IR code worked at +- 3 meters away but no other IR code.
- relearned all the codes but only the OFF worked
- streched the cable almost to the position of the IR receiver of the A/C and all the learned codes worked ok.
- Performed the same tests in another room, with the same results.
- tested at least 3 different IRM01 and 2 different RIO outputs. Connected 12v lamp through the RIO outputs and they work ok.

What i find strange is that i can "see" my standalone IR receiver detects the IRM01 signal, after it has been reflected on a wall, about 5 meters total distance and right on target with the appliance original IR receiver. But the appliance don't like it.

Is there any way i can increase the IR led power?

Regards
Cab123



 Posted: Friday Jan 18th, 2013 05:11 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
leonchue
Cytech
 

Joined: Monday Aug 7th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 71
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

"- relearned all the codes but only the OFF worked"

Use a fresh set of batteries in remote control when learning IR. Sometimes it makes a lot of differences. ;)



 Posted: Friday Jan 18th, 2013 12:51 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

let me rephrase this:

"- relearned all the codes but only the OFF worked"

- relearned all codes from the commands, but didn't do any difference. Only the "OFF" code was successfuly aknowledged by the A/C.

Since the IRM01 works at short distance i assume that there is no issues with the IR learning process.

Hopefully i will resume troubleshooting this weekend.


Thanks
Cab123



 Posted: Saturday Jan 19th, 2013 01:23 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
ident
Administrator


Joined: Wednesday Aug 9th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3493
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

"- relearned all the codes but only the OFF worked" - relearned all codes from the commands, but didn't do any difference.

 Only the "OFF" code was successfuly aknowledged by the A/C.

Since the IRM01 works at short distance i assume that there is no issues with the IR learning process.

You mean that these are the results after changing to a fresh set of batteries for the remote?

If so try to downgrade to an older UCM firmware 6.024 attached, as some changes were made to IR learning after that version

Attachment: UCM6_024.zip (Downloaded 2 times)



 Posted: Sunday Jan 20th, 2013 05:47 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

No, sorry, the batteries are new and never experienced any problems during the IR learning process.


I've been testing this weekend and understand better my problem.

The IRM01 does indeed transmit IR codes long range, my problem was that i was expecting a performance similar to a remote but its not the case.

the IR led needs to be extremely well positioned to work, for exemple, at 4 meters distance, if i point the led to the IR receiver of my A/C (right edge) it works. If i point it to the other edge of the AC it doesn't work. The AC is 80cm wide. Just for fun i tried to understand what was the limit and found out that the IR transmitter can be directed to about 30cm off target. From 4metes distance... uh too lazy to do the math, but the angle is extremely narrow!

So probably it is fuctioning as designed.

Now i have to install more IR transmitters, can you please advise on how many IRM1's can be installed in parallel on one output? I would't like to waste too much outputs.

Regards
Cab123



 Posted: Monday Jan 21st, 2013 04:44 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
ident
Administrator


Joined: Wednesday Aug 9th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3493
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Thanks for the update
Many remote controls have better angle coverage because they have 2 to 3 transmitters behind the IR window

You should also be able to achieve the same angle by using 2 transmitters in parallel



 Posted: Tuesday Jan 22nd, 2013 09:44 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Hi, thanks for your support, i also tried replacing the ir led from the IRM01 with one from a old universal remote and it woks in the same narrow way. I suspect that there is a enhanced led driver used in common remotes that boosts performance. It would be nice if you had that option in your available IR transmitters.

Br
Cab123



 Posted: Wednesday Jan 23rd, 2013 03:42 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
ident
Administrator


Joined: Wednesday Aug 9th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3493
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

The effective angle of an IR transmitter cannot be boosted by any special driver. The IR is most effective at the centre and rapidly decreases as the angle from centre decreases

The transmitting power ie current depends on the series resistor of the IRM which is 100 ohms. If the current to the IR transmitter is increased the performance at all angles is similarly boosted

Many remote controls have smaller value resistors to boost power and effective angle. For IRM01 because it is an external module we do not use smaller value resistors because programing errors may cause constant voltage to be applied to the IR output and damages the IR as well the output

Using a parallel IR transmitter connected to the same output but pointed slightly different may be a better option



 Posted: Friday Jan 25th, 2013 10:09 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
cab123
Member
 

Joined: Saturday Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Posts: 25
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Hi ident,

Thank you for the explanation, i will follow your sugestion.

regards
cab123



 Current time is 06:50 am
Top




UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2014 Data 1 Systems