| Posted: Tuesday Dec 9th, 2014 12:53 pm |
|
21st Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Hi,
As expected, everything now working 100% from approx 8:30am ish.
|
| Posted: Tuesday Dec 9th, 2014 02:13 pm |
|
22nd Post |
slychiu
Administrator
| Joined: | Saturday Apr 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
| Posts: | 5500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
When this happens again, can you pull out the velbus rs485 submodule from the UCM/Velbus.
It may be the velbus rs485 bus interfering with the comfort RS485 bus
|
| Posted: Tuesday Dec 9th, 2014 09:15 pm |
|
23rd Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Okay,
5Pm, and it appears to be down again, symptoms are
1) All keypads and scs switches are down2) No access to comfort app (can ping eth, but unable to log in)
I will now disconnect the rs485 submodule from the ucm velbus.
Completed!
I also restarted main board and both ucm boards after removing the submodule
Still no access to keypads, scs or ucm eth (can ping it fine, but unable to log in).
I will now, disconnect the ucm velbus completely, and all tha ka/kb inputs to the main board, leaving just the ucm eth connected to the main board.
I will restart ucm eth and main board and then try to log in via cum eth
No access to ucm eth.
It seems to me, with just ucm and main board, I should be able to connect, everything else is completely removed from the system, its the most basic setup almost, just main board, ucmeth and lem.
Slychui,
Is there any possibility at all that the predictible times of failure point to some form of software or programming issue ?
I can nearly set my clock by this. In fact a few days ago, I even offset the time on comfort to see if the schedule of the fault would move with it...and it didnt, which surprised me.
Regards,Eamon
Last edited on Tuesday Dec 9th, 2014 09:16 pm by wexfordman
|
| Posted: Tuesday Dec 9th, 2014 11:06 pm |
|
24th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Further update
I have a spare main board, althouh an older firmware version, so I upgraded the firmware and replaced the existing board for this one.
I reconnected everything and tested again, with no improvement, still locked out.
One thing to note, is that when this is happening, the one and only way I seem to be able to get any connectivity to the main board is via firmware upgrade with the two way uprade connected to the main board. Any other method, I just cant connect.
D9 and D10 are however flashing furiously on the ucm even when there is low/no activity, so it looks like the main board is sending a lot of info out the bus, even when there is little actual activity, unless this is it attempting to communicate with the other modules.
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 10:25 am |
|
25th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
slychiu wrote: When this happens again, can you pull out the velbus rs485 submodule from the UCM/Velbus.
It may be the velbus rs485 bus interfering with the comfort RS485 bus
Hi slychiu,
Please see post number 24 for results
Thanks for help so far, struggling at this point to see where to go next.
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 12:11 pm |
|
26th Post |
slychiu
Administrator
| Joined: | Saturday Apr 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
| Posts: | 5500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Its very puzzling. Can you confirm a few things? Please answer the following
- The problem happens at around 5 PM every day but only when you turn on Velbus Relay channel 1? It does not matter if you change the time in comfort, ie it always happens at 5 PM even if you change the time in comfort?
- The system recovers when you switch off the velbus channel 1 relay manually.?
- If you turn on the velbus channel 1 relay manually and not by Comfort does it also happen? ie lose connection
- when the problem happens, even if you disconnect all connection to the UCM/Velbus and keypads the problem still happens? and even if you change the whole comfort PCB. I cannot understand this at all because the system is now unrelated to velbus? am I understanding correct?
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 12:19 pm |
|
27th Post |
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 01:31 pm |
|
28th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
slychiu wrote: Its very puzzling. Can you confirm a few things? Please answer the following - The problem happens at around 5 PM every day but only when you turn on Velbus Relay channel 1? It does not matter if you change the time in comfort, ie it always happens at 5 PM even if you change the time in comfort?
- The system recovers when you switch off the velbus channel 1 relay manually.?
- If you turn on the velbus channel 1 relay manually and not by Comfort does it also happen? ie lose connection
- when the problem happens, even if you disconnect all connection to the UCM/Velbus and keypads the problem still happens? and even if you change the whole comfort PCB. I cannot understand this at all because the system is now unrelated to velbus? am I understanding correct?
Hi,
1. Yep, around 5pm it starts, but I will double check this evening if the comms failure starts even without the velbus relay being activated (I disabled comms alarm a few days back as kept announcing on keypad).
2. Yes, when it starts first, I can get it to recover with almost 100% reliability. However, after a while, I do lose all comms and cannot get back in no matter what I do, but this is after I have done an amount of troubleshooting, so I am not sure if left alone what would happen.
3. I have been mostly turning the relay on manually, if when it is happening, i turn it on via app, or scs, I lose comms straight afterwards, and cant turn it off unless manually.
4. Yep, when I lose comms completely (which happens after a while and the velbus status makes no difference) I am completely unable to restore it no matter what I disconnect. I can bring the hardware config down to a bare miniumum, with just main board and ucm eth, and am unable to access comfort via phone or comfigurator. The phone sees the system, but is unable to login after I type the password, and comfigurator gives an unable to conenct to ucm message. I am then completely locked out until the following morning at about 9ish, when everything works 100% again.
ps:- Ignore the fact that I changed the time on comfort,I may have overwritten this when I downloaded a config file to it. Its worth noting though, that comfort sunrise and sunset times for today are 08:29 and 16:05
Last edited on Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 01:38 pm by wexfordman
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 02:10 pm |
|
29th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Everything came back in tis morning at about 8:30, the only difference was that the scs and keypads did not, but this was because they were not added as modules to the new board. Once I got comms back at 8:30ish, I scanned mor modules and added them, everyhting now working again.
I will leave all alone now, and see what happens over this evening. If things fail, I will not touch the config, or change anything, and leave the system work through. I will only try to log on to the system and use keypads etc.
Comfort time is also correct.
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 03:08 pm |
|
30th Post |
Ingo
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Sunday Jan 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | South Africa |
| Posts: | 562 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
This is indeed interesting... Have you tried to remove the heater and just put a lightbulb on there? If you disconnect the connection between the heater and Comfort, and switch the heater on manually, does it still do that? I am thinking maybe the heater itself is generating some mains interference which is somehow fed via mains into Comfort.
Ingo
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 04:41 pm |
|
31st Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Ingo wrote: This is indeed interesting... Have you tried to remove the heater and just put a lightbulb on there? If you disconnect the connection between the heater and Comfort, and switch the heater on manually, does it still do that? I am thinking maybe the heater itself is generating some mains interference which is somehow fed via mains into Comfort.
Ingo
Hi Ingo,
Yes, I have removed the ac input to the relay, so the relay is in effect switching nothing, and the effect is the same. (there is an isolation switch which feeds the velbus relay for the boiler, and I simply turn this off). Its an oil burner, so the load itself isnt particularly high in any case.
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 04:48 pm |
|
32nd Post |
Ingo
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Sunday Jan 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | South Africa |
| Posts: | 562 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Hmm... I was thinking maybe a marginal power connection on the boiler might be causing interference somehow but if you disconnected the relay and it switches 'open air' and still does it then the problem is closer to Comfort. Any chance you have another velbus relay?
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 04:57 pm |
|
33rd Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Ingo wrote: Hmm... I was thinking maybe a marginal power connection on the boiler might be causing interference somehow but if you disconnected the relay and it switches 'open air' and still does it then the problem is closer to Comfort. Any chance you have another velbus relay?
The velbus relay is one of 4 on that module, its a vmb4ry, which has 4 relays. There is one "bus" from this, so all relays communicate to comfort on the same bus also.
The fourth relay was unused, I moved the heating over on to that yesterday to see if any change/impact, but too early to tell yet. The only thing is, that the fourth relay did not cause any problems on comfort, neither did the 2nd and third.
Personally, I am starting to think sometthing with the programming, the timing is too regular and consistent for it to be anything else, and as mentioned, I have now swapped out the entire main board, upgraded all firmare etc.
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 05:04 pm |
|
34th Post |
slychiu
Administrator
| Joined: | Saturday Apr 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
| Posts: | 5500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
3 I have been mostly turning the relay on manually, if when it is happening, i turn it on via app, or scs, I lose comms straight afterwards, and cant turn it off unless manually.
It happens when you turn on the relay by Comfort, but if you start by turning it on manually, does it still cause a problem?
can you read the event log ?
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 05:20 pm |
|
35th Post |
Ingo
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Sunday Jan 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | South Africa |
| Posts: | 562 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
So relays 2 and 3 work fine? Let's see if 4 works. Perhaps there is a spot of solder bridging the bus and one of the relay 1 contacts or perhaps the relay coil. Last edited on Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 05:20 pm by Ingo
|
| Posted: Wednesday Dec 10th, 2014 05:35 pm |
|
36th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
slychiu wrote: 3 I have been mostly turning the relay on manually, if when it is happening, i turn it on via app, or scs, I lose comms straight afterwards, and cant turn it off unless manually.
It happens when you turn on the relay by Comfort, but if you start by turning it on manually, does it still cause a problem?
can you read the event log ?
Hi,
I can check that. It doesn't cause a problem right now though, all is working perfectly now.
|
| Posted: Thursday Dec 11th, 2014 03:04 am |
|
37th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
slychiu wrote: 3 I have been mostly turning the relay on manually, if when it is happening, i turn it on via app, or scs, I lose comms straight afterwards, and cant turn it off unless manually.
It happens when you turn on the relay by Comfort, but if you start by turning it on manually, does it still cause a problem?
can you read the event log ?
Hi Slychui,
Update this evening, is that all works fine all evening until the heating relay is activated. Activation of heating relay manually knocks out comms, and restores once the relay is turned off again, manually,
Note, the relay in question is now relay 4 on this vmb4ry, as I moved it the other day, so the problem seems to move with the load connected to it. This relay is not programmed in comfort either, so not mapped to a counter, so is "invisible" to comfort.
Relay 1 with no load, now has no impact when turned on or off manuall or via comfort.
Behaviour is certainly better though this evening, as I am able to restore comms simply by turning off the relay, which over the last few nights, did not always happen.
So, it would appear that the problem is related to the velbus relay, but it is very hard to understand why this is still only a problem between certain hours of the day, i.e I am gauranteed not to have a problem during daylight hours.
I should note, that today also, I disabled the sunset and sunrise responses in the miscelaneous comfort responses. Not sure if this has a direct impact or not.
|
| Posted: Thursday Dec 11th, 2014 03:08 am |
|
38th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Slychui,
Enclosed is a copy of the monitor taken when I manualy activated relay 4 (heating relay) that caused the comms to knock out.
Again, this relay 4 is not mapped to comfort, comfort cannot see it, and cannot control it. It was a spare relay up until I moved the heating from relay1 to relay 4 of this board.
Thanks
Eamon
Attachment: comfort_log_vmb4ry_relay_4_comms_issue.txt (Downloaded 5 times) Last edited on Thursday Dec 11th, 2014 03:09 am by wexfordman
|
| Posted: Thursday Dec 11th, 2014 06:38 am |
|
39th Post |
slychiu
Administrator
| Joined: | Saturday Apr 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Singapore |
| Posts: | 5500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I was actually wanting the event log, not the Monitor IO as that tells when the communications failures happens and restore.
Perhaps you can turn on the affected relay before the due time and see if it happens on exactly the same time each day
Have you tried resetting comfort while it is in this state?
|
| Posted: Thursday Dec 11th, 2014 11:01 am |
|
40th Post |
wexfordman
UCM Pi Users
| Joined: | Monday Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Cork, Ireland |
| Posts: | 546 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Oops, sorry
Didn't reset comfort last night as all I needed to do to restore was turn off the relay. On previous evenings I reset comfort when I was completely locked out and it made no difference.
Will try the suggestion about turning it on before the expected time to see if it is an exact time that the problem occurs.
|
| Current time is 04:15 pm | Page:   1 2 3 4 5   |
|
