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Z-Wave 7.043
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 Posted: Friday Apr 18th, 2014 07:08 am
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ident
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Zwave firmware 7.043 has been released

This has a minor change to improve the processing of the send command to Zwave via Action 197 (Response Wizard) to filter out illegal commands in action 197




 Posted: Saturday Apr 19th, 2014 01:40 pm
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Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes:

I've upgraded the Zwave firmware to this 7.043 from the 7.031. i think from 7.031 my zwave network of vitrum switches starts to behave really badly. I was thinking that 7.046 would solve the problems but it didn't, so I resetted my entire zwave network including the UCM module and factory defaulting the MK Astral remote so that i start afresh with 7.046. I have also upgraded the eth02 UCM and logic engine firmware to the lastest available. The configurator is also latest using 3.8.6.0. Let me list the problems:

1. Cosmetics:  All UCMs including the logic engine's serial number became "invalid" or "not assigned".
2. Some crash messages sometimes when i navigate to list the counters.
3. Previously comfort zwave can differentiate accurately the type of multi-channel switches. Now it can still differentiate between the satelite, scene and relay on-off and relay dimmer switches. However all switches only has a single channel regardless of whether the actual switch is 2 or 4 buttons/channel.
4. Configuring responses with "Basic Set Command" become problematic as I cannot set which channel of the switch to control. Previously, i can controller multiple channels of the same switch in 1 line using commas, but the current configurator response wizard only allows me to type in nothing (as in not filling the blank) or 1. Typing in 2 will give error. Typing anything else including comma will give error saying "Value must be in range 1-1". Manually configuring the response also doesn't seem to trigger the switch buttons.
5. Related to problem 4, the response configured with blank in the channel field will be able to control button 1 of the switch. Configuring the channel to "1" (which is the only value i can use due to problem 4) will not allow the response to control any button on the switch.

I think this problem may be configurator as well as firmware related but I have encountered other more serious issues!!
i was having very delayed actions from associated switches. I can have 2 associated switches side by side which takes more than 5 secs to trigger each other's button. Seemed like some form of zwave storm or loop that is occuring. On top of that some switches do not even trigger its associated peer anymore. Reassociating resolve the problem for less than a few hrs and it reverted back to the problematic stage. Some response scrpts doesn't do anything anymore. This happened immediately after i updated to 7.031 from a firmware i don't remember the version number.

Currently everything is factory resetted and re included. Switches are rassociated to the desired relationship. I did not managed to program anything in comfort thanks to the problems encountered. I will monitor for a few days to see if the delay problem resurface.

Any help is appreciated.



 Posted: Sunday Apr 20th, 2014 08:03 am
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are you saying that these problems occured in 7.031?

can you send the cclx file to support@cytech.biz so that e can see what is in your zwave network?



 Posted: Sunday Apr 20th, 2014 06:26 pm
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hi, will send the file if i have not overwritten it. i was planning to reprogramme as i do think i can further optimise the response coding.  i think the pertinent problem now is a. the switches are all recognised as basic nodes. not a big problem as we can still define individual channel in the response config.b. response config dont allow any othrr channel than 'blank' or 1 and 1 doesnt do anything to the switches. Blank will triggerbutton 1 and a multi channel switch. this seemed to be a problem with configurator. 
help?



 Posted: Monday Apr 21st, 2014 10:13 am
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check what is your Zwave module info in Properties


It may be an old version of the Zwave Library which has bugs

Refer to page 15 of the Zwave manual

The minimum Library version is 3.22 for Z-Wave Switches with Multi-channel Class, e.g. multi-gang MK Astral or Vitrum to be identified correctly. In Library Version 2.40, the Multi-channel Class device is identified wrongly as Basic Class. The newer Z-Wave Library i.e. 3.22 and above fixed the bug on 2.40. Cytech will upgrade the Z-Wave Library without charge, except for the cost of transport. Please contact support@cytech.biz for assistance



 Posted: Monday Apr 21st, 2014 10:35 am
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Hi,

The module version is 3.42. As you can see from the attachment.


Attachment: zwave01.JPG (Downloaded 62 times)



 Posted: Monday Apr 21st, 2014 10:36 am
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Also, you can see the error message when programming response and the zwave channel.

Attachment: zwave2.JPG (Downloaded 62 times)



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 11:18 am
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Really some major issue here! Not sure if it is my MK Astral LRC14U or is the zwabe module. I have resetted my entire 24 nodes of zwave switches and individually added each switch per round of inclusion to the UCM zwave. so after i include a switch node, i go to UCM zwave and replicate the information from the remote control to UCM. In this way the zwave ucm is recognizing all individual switch with multi channel and multichannel node, instead of only basic node. I did all the way to the last node which is a DIN mounted dimmer module from vitrum (single channel) and did the very last round of replication to zwave UCM (after 2 painstaking hours of running up and down 3 to 4 storey to do individual inclusion). and WTF! after the last replication, somehow, more than half the previously included switches became basic nodes!!!What is happening here?? Is it my LRC14U or the UCM?? why only at the last round of replication??

:X:X:X



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 11:52 am
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Can you do another learn with the network, no need to reset

You should be able to see the nodes as multichannel.

During each learn, the UCM/Zwave polls all the nodes to see if they are multichannel

You have not erased any information even though the last learn detected as basic



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 11:54 am
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If you still have many nodes as basic after a learn, it may be the last node which is a dimmer which is causing a problem on the zwave network
Exclude it and see if there is any problem



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 11:57 am
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Do u mean setting the remote to replicate information to the ucm again? ie. Pressing "learn" in configurator and follw by pressing "exc" and "asc" on the lrc14? Did that many times..not helping..please advise if we can manually correct this mode assignment? Changing the basic to multichannel assignment in the clx file and writing into eprom doesnt work.



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 12:06 pm
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ident wrote: Can you do another learn with the network, no need to reset

You should be able to see the nodes as multichannel.

During each learn, the UCM/Zwave polls all the nodes to see if they are multichannel

You have not erased any information even though the last learn detected as basic

Hi when u say that the ucm will poll the nodes for node type, does it mean that the remote controller does not contain information about the node type when include the nodes. So during a replication of the information between the controller and ucm, only node id and address is exchanged? Node type is determined and interpretted by the ucm when it polls the actual device?? Then what is stopping us from manually assigning the node type to the switches assuming that we hit such problems as ive encountered.
The reason why i reset the whole network is because ive experimented and discovered that the response problem ive mentioned earlier only affect basic nodes. I can configure multiple channel ids in the response when the node is multichannel. In basic node only channel "blank" works.



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 12:21 pm
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ident wrote: If you still have many nodes as basic after a learn, it may be the last node which is a dimmer which is causing a problem on the zwave network
Exclude it and see if there is any problem
The last node which is a DIN module dimmer is also directly associated to a satelite switch via the same remote so that it can be controlled by that switch. I did a series of other association with other switches to establish some 2 way switching before i let the ucm learn the network again which included the last node addition. Can this cause the problem mentioned? But then, before i attempted the reset earlier, during the 1st round after i upgraded the firmware, i used the remote to incl all switches in one go before i replicate to the ucm. Already without setting associations all nodes are detected as basic. Very puzzling..



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 12:38 pm
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please advise if we can manually correct this mode assignment?
Being a Zwave-enabled manufacturer, Z-wave does not allow manual assignment of multichannel switches if it is not detected. This is why you cannot manually send a multichannel command

does it mean that the remote controller does not contain information about the node type when include the nodes. So during a replication of the information between the controller and ucm, only node id and address is exchanged? Node type is determined and interpretted by the ucm when it polls the actual device??
Correct, the UCM/Zwave has to poll each device to fnd out if it is a multichannel switch. If there is no reply from the device, then it is taken as a Basic switch

Then what is stopping us from manually assigning the node type to the switches assuming that we hit such problems as ive encountered.
Zwave Association does not allow this


Before you reset the network and after you reset the network it seems that only with the dimmer in the network, the nodes became basic. So it may be that puttiing the dimmer in the network caused a problem. That is why I suggest to remove and confirm if the nodes can be detected as Multichannel switches





 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 12:47 pm
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Ok..so in other words the remote is not faulty? 
I totally understand that zwave association has its concern..but besides using a learn which requires the remote to replicate..can u program a button or function just to do node validation instead or the learn which requires the remote. Is there also a debug mode to see the zwave exchanges so that we can troubleshoot this problem or identify malfunctioning nodes?



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 12:58 pm
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I think the first thing to confirm is whether removing the last node fixes this problem, before we can consider other actiions



 Posted: Tuesday Apr 22nd, 2014 06:40 pm
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Hi,

i did more tests now. I've confirmed that the last DIN node is not causing the problems. As you've mentioned that each learn process polls all nodes for their type, I did a few more rounds of learning by doing the replication procedure. I get mixed results everytime after a learn. Sometimes I get randomly more than 10 multichannel nodes showing as basic, sometimes less. The best i've managed is only 2 units of 2 channel switches returning as basic nodes. And you mentioned that if the nodes do not reply in due time they are automatically classify as basic nodes. I've did a few rounds of network rediscovery with the LRC14 and re-learn again, but again, best result is 2 random nodes labeled as basic when they should be multichannel. and when they are registered as basic nodes, response wizard does not work when i declare the 2nd channel under basic set command. Only channel 0 works.

is there a way to have guaranteed msg send and receipt when the ucm is polling for node information relating to types? Is there a configurable timeout setting to lengthen the wait period for node replies? Obviously, I would appreciate if a new patch can be made to the configurator to solve the Response multichannel bug.

thanks



 Posted: Wednesday Apr 23rd, 2014 01:19 pm
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I've confirmed that the last DIN node is not causing the problems
How did you confirm that?


and when they are registered as basic nodes, response wizard does not work when i declare the 2nd channel under basic set command. Only channel 0 works.
That is correct, according to the rules set by Zwave

Is there a configurable timeout setting to lengthen the wait period for node replies?
This is not within our control. The time-out is in the Z-Wave module and cannot be changed



i was having very delayed actions from associated switches. I can have 2 associated switches side by side which takes more than 5 secs to trigger each other's button. Seemed like some form of zwave storm or loop that is occuring. On top of that some switches do not even trigger its associated peer anymore. Reassociating resolve the problem for less than a few hrs and it reverted back to the problematic stage.
are you saying the Zwave switches associated wth other switches have a big delay.


It appears like this may be a Z-wave network problem and may not be a bug
Perhaps your house is too large if it has 3 or 4 floors


You have not sent your cclx file to support@cytech.biz That would help us to understand your setup better



 Posted: Wednesday Apr 23rd, 2014 02:33 pm
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Hi,

Sent you the cclx (the only one i can find) which was having issue with the zwave network.

I did not exclude the DIN module because after a few re-learn i managed to get most back to multichannel except any random 2 switches. But those switches are located either in the basement or 1 floor (in a room) above the UCM. I am starting to believe that it may be a issue with lost communication at the point of relearning. Unless you are sure that the DIN node really the culprit I will do the exclude. It is challenging and the reason why i'm reluctant to exclude it because it is sited in the ceiling!

As for the bug i mentioned about assigning channels other than 0 or 1 to the basic node, I always have the impression you can do that regardless of whether the node is identified as basic or multi. My bad. So i do have to resolve the node type issue else I won't be able to control some switches.



 Posted: Thursday Apr 24th, 2014 09:57 am
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There is no problem with your file and the setup for zwave

It looks like the din rail dimmer may be the cause of the problem. Prior to adding the din rail dimmer, you were always able to detect the multichannel switch  but when you added the dimmer then each time you do a learn, you have random switches detected as basic (ie there is no reply to a query). We suspect this could be because the din rail dimmer is interfering with the other devices replies to the query when UCM/zwave is polling them. But we cannot be sure without trying it out.
In zwave, many things are going on in the wireless network which are not known

If you do remove the dimmer from the network and everything works then you should do a reset to default for the dimmer so that any data that is left can be erased, as that may be causing problems




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