Comfort Home Automation/ Security System Forums Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Timers available in user mode
 Moderated by: slychiu
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sunday Feb 10th, 2019 03:03 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Comfort timers are currently only accessible from engineer mode.
Would it be possible to add a timer change function to the timer list. 
If there is a timer list with the ability to alter the timers then this list could (usefully) then be available in user mode.



 Posted: Sunday Feb 10th, 2019 05:51 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

In a similar way to the time programs menu...
Also could have hours min sec rather than just sec as is now.



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 03:55 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Time Programs are available in User Mode.


Timer Registers is not available in User Mode. Timers are a programming feature, so there is no need for users to change any Timers. Timers in Engineer mode are only to see the state of timers eg whether running or not


Last edited on Monday Feb 11th, 2019 08:24 am by slychiu



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 08:14 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

This is where i start to have MAJOR problems with cytech.
How on earth can you say suggest that users don't need access to timers OF COURSE THEY DO !



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 08:20 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Your understanding of timers  may not be the same as ours
Please give an example of when and how this would be useful



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 08:31 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I have yesterday programmed a run on timer for a bathroom fan.
Customer is now asking if we can alter it

------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week  I programmed a gate timer - again customer is asking if they can alter the timer
In fact pretty much any instance of us adding a timer the customer would benefit from having access to view or alter the time



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 08:48 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

The problem is that your requests are not at all clear, then you get annoyed when you are not understood perfectly

Tiimers are programmed in Responses,  
  eg Do Response  XXX after 10 seconds using Timer 1

  or
Wait for 10 seconds using Timer 2


The parameter XXX seconds cannot be changed in User Mode or Engineer It only can be changed in the Response.

Each use of the timer may have a dfferent delay
eg delay 10 seconds after event 1, delay 1 minute after event 2


We cannot always make things work in Comfort according to exactly what you want. There are limitations in time and resources.



If you want the user to have different timer delays then you can do the following
If Flag  XX= 1 then Do Response 1 after 10 seconds 

if Flag XX = 2 then do Response 1 after 20 seconds 
etc
The flags can be programmed in Control menu so the user can select the delay

That takes a few miniues to program



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 09:30 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Also run time limiters in a towel rail and an electric U/F heating circuit



 Posted: Monday Feb 11th, 2019 12:48 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Im aware of what you are saying.......(from the designer and manufacturing perspective)l
"""that timers could be made accessible to end users but due to time and resources limitations they are not on your things to do list !"""

Here is what I am saying ( from an installer and customer satisfaction perspective)
In order to offer the customer a better Comfort Cytech experience I believe that us providing programming using a set of timers that the customer can have (limited) access to is beneficial !

If its never going to get on your list of things to do then so be it !



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 12th, 2019 05:10 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

It is not as simple as "Do or Dont Do". This requires a deeper understanding of the use of timers

As I said  Timers may have Different delays at different times

eg in this situation Response start delay with 10 seconds.. 

In another situation Response starts timer with 30 seconds..

In another situation Response starts timer with 2 minutes..
These are handled properly within responses

If you allow the user to change the timer value then what happens to the different situations that I mentioned? All get changed to the user setting which breaks what the programmer intended to do


Having a good and reliable product means it is necessary to think through the consequences of any change to product features.



Last edited on Tuesday Feb 12th, 2019 05:46 am by slychiu



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 12th, 2019 11:30 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

So again to provide further differentiation between user mode and engineering mode ....... why not
Have the timer list in engineer mode contain further columns may be .......
Timer name: Change setting:
Timer status:  Timer visible in user menu
 T01_gate          3 min    active NO 

T02_Fan 20 min                inactive YES


T03_TowelR     40 min    active YES

!!



 Posted: Wednesday Feb 13th, 2019 04:06 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

As I said before this does not work because the same timer can have different delays at different times


eg in this situation Response start timer delay with 10 seconds.. 

In another situation Response starts same timer with 30 seconds..

In another situation Response starts same timer with 2 minutes..
These are handled properly within responses

The alternative of using Control menu that I mentrioned is easier and does not need these complex changes






 Posted: Saturday Feb 16th, 2019 09:23 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
Home
Comfort Distributors
 

Joined: Wednesday Jul 12th, 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 641
Status: 
Offline

  back to top


OK how about in the timers screen having another column for the ststus of all timers 
I not that the status bar in the RHS of each timer name tab has the timer duration time left which is really useful.
A



 Posted: Sunday Feb 17th, 2019 04:41 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

That would be useful, however Comfiguratoir is not able to find out the timer status of all timers as there is no command to access all timers. That is for the wish list



 Posted: Sunday Feb 17th, 2019 10:24 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
cc_uk
Member
 

Joined: Friday Mar 28th, 2014
Location:  
Posts: 65
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

It sounds like the original question, which is a good one, is to allow the end user easy access to change the duration of an event, but not the logic behind that event.

Ie ability to change the bathroom fan run on timer from say 30 seconds to 90 seconds?

Cytech have said, rightly, that timers can have different values in different circumstances.

As a suggestion - could a way for Cytech to think of this be use of user defined variables?

Ie Engineer would define a variable as 'BathroomFanTimer' and set an initial value. In the response logic this variable name would be used. And the user is given access to change the value of the variable.

Maybe in the variable definition the engineer sets 4 things:-
Variable Name
Initial value
Minimum value
Maximum value

The user would be limited to change the value between Min & Max only.



 Posted: Monday Feb 18th, 2019 01:15 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
slychiu
Administrator


Joined: Saturday Apr 29th, 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4453
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

That makes it even more difficult!;)Even andy did not suggest all these parameters 
some engineers are looking at other alternatives



 Current time is 11:25 pm
Top




UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2014 Data 1 Systems