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+--- Thread: SUC/SIS role in a network (/thread-2901.html)
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- gaynorc - 06-08-2012
I am just about to add an interface to my system which will take over as primary controller and as SUC/SIS device for the system.
Questions:
1) Where a controller adopts the SUC/SIS role in a network, I understand that controllers with controller library version 1.53 or greater will become an inclusion controller. Is this the case with UCM zwave3 library 3.34, i.e. will it become an inclusion controller? If so, does this make any differnce to the instructions on creating including and replicating when virtual nodes are created?
2) Will the UCM ZWave3 device automatically query/ periodically check for any network updates from the SUC/SIS device?
Thanks in advance.
- ident - 06-11-2012
It is true that In Z-Wave, when a controller becomes a SIS/SUC, other secondary controllers can become inclusion controllers and thus be able to add and delete nodes in the system
However UCM/Zwave3 has not implemented that function, as it is unclear if there are many manufacturers whose controllers can adopt the SIS/SUC role.
This would impose more management complexity to the Ucm/zwave so we have opted not to implement it until such time that it is widely implemented among controllers
In the meantime inclusion has to be done by the primary controller or other inclusion controllers
- ident - 06-11-2012
Also UCM/Zwave does not automaticallly update the network from the Primary
It has to be done manually using the Learn Process
- gaynorc - 06-11-2012
Okay and thanks for the information.
- gaynorc - 06-11-2012
I have an MK astral system and have just installed the LSI1 Astral Smart Interface Unit. It gives you no choice but on installation it takes the role of a ZWave SUC/SIS device in the network, and converts the existing primary controller into an inclusion controller.
Today I went to create two virtual nodes on my UCM Zwave3 device. Two problems encountered:
(1) The inclusion controller created the devices okay. However, there was no way to replicate/copy the network again as per page 18 of the UCM Manual. The inclusion controllers do not perform the EXC/ASC copy function. Furthermore the Astral Smart Interface SUC/SIS device has no facility for that either, as its manual states that \"the manual replication process needed after adding or removing a device is no longer essential\" as \"with a SUC/SIS in the network all other devices will periodically check for network updates from the SUC/SIS\".
(2) Two nodes were created, but with the node type = \"basic\" and not \"virtual\". I attach a screen pic of those. They are nodes 33 & 34. On query from the Astral Smart Interface they \"failed to repond to some or all queries\".
Two questions:
1) Any ideas on a work around?
2) How do you delete ucm zwave3 virtual nodes from the system?
Thanks
- ident - 06-12-2012
Some questions;
From the screen-shot, how do you know the highlighted node is virtual when you cannot \"update\" the network information for UCM/Z-Wave.
Does it mean that you managed to do it?
Can you get the UCM/Z-Wave properties tab screen-shot for the following information.
a) UCM/Z-Wave version
b) node ID
c) module version
For your questions,
- Including(learn) UCM/Z-Wave into same network again will update the network.
- to remove the virtual nodes, activate exclude function from controller and do \"virtual node info - send\" in Comfigurator. Need to update the network again to confirm.
- gaynorc - 06-12-2012
Q1: \"how do you know the highlighted node is virtual\".
The two nodes referred to were not part of the system until I followed the procedure to create the two virtual nodes.
When the process was finished and the eeprom read these two \"basic\" nodes appeared.
So all I was trying to say was that instead of creating two virtual nodes, these basic nodes were created.
Q2: Screen print attached. ZWave UCM properties - UCM=6.019 / Z-Wave Module=3.34
On your answer: You say that sending the \"virtual node information\" after activating \"Exc\" would exclude \"virtual nodes\". As the two nodes that were created are classed as basic, and no such \"send virtual node info\" button exists on its panel, what other button would suffice? Would the \"on\" button do the same?
I will try using the other information you have given me later today.
Thanks again.
- ident - 06-13-2012
Note that your UCM/Zwave Node id is shown as 36
Virtual nodes should be created after inclusion of the UCM/Zwave so the 2 virtual nodes should be higher than 36, but your mapping screen does not show any nodes higher than 36
What was your exact sequence?
- gaynorc - 06-13-2012
The higher number for the UCM node may be explained by the fact that when I discovered the two \"basic\" nodes I started from scratch, as per manual instructions: i.e. I excluded the UCM Zwave, reset the UCM device, checked to ensure it was at factory defaut, and did included/learn again. The two \"basic nodes\" persisted with that status. The UCM Zwave device became node 36.
Hence my question how to delete the two \"basic nodes\" that were created. I proposed starting from scratch again if I could excluded these two node, and then trying once again to create two \"virtual\" nodes.
- ident - 06-13-2012
When you use the Inclusion Controller to create Virtual Nodes, you say that it does not allow you to Copy/Replicate the network to UCM/Zwave. However, you can use the Learn Button on the UCM/Zwave to Replicate the network from the Primary or Inclusion Controller. Repeating the Learn process again also serves to replicate the Z-Wave network - it will not create a new node if it has been added before. (Note that for MK Astral controller, if you repeat the learn process, the red led may turn on but this is not a problem)
If you Exclude the UCM/Zwave without first excluding the Virtual Nodes, the virtual nodes will remain in the network but will appear as \"Basic\" nodes. They become \"orphan\" nodes. They cannot be removed by UCM/Zwave, but other Z-wave management software may have the capability to remove orphaned nodes.
When you re-learn the UCM/Zwave after removing it, then it will be added as a new node but the 2 previous virtual nodes will remain as basic nodes.
It appears that this is what happened to the 2 basic nodes that you see in your system.
The extra nodes will not affect the performance of the Zwave network except to appear in the list of nodes
You can either continue to add the new virtual nodes and ignore the old basic nodes (and use the Learn button on UCM/Zwave to copy/replicate the network), or use the Primary controller to delete the whole network and start again. The UCM/Zwave should be RESET to default in this case., This would eliminate the orphan nodes from the system,